Curse

Lux Aeterna · Aug 03, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

When against double stance, bonettis, dolyak signet monks, I always just end up having to kill their entire team before slowly taking them down defy pain tank style.

It's kind of sad when this happens, really, but it's what they get for selfishly trying too hard to keep themselves alive.

wuzzman · Aug 03, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Seems to be time to experiment with dolyak signet.

Mad Lord of Milk · Aug 03, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Personally I like Dolyak Signet better. Unremovable, + armor, no energy. Speed reduction isn't a big deal if you use it correctly.

Krill · Aug 03, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Smoke Powder Defense is absolute shit

Smoke powder defense does have the coolest name and greatest lawl factor of any stance though. I actually would like to see that skill buffed to usable status with a nerf to shield bash, which was conspicuously not addressed with the tactics stance nerfs.

Robster Lobster · Aug 03, 2009, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Dolyak Signet can't be used when you're already knocked down which clearly makes it useless for 90% of monks.

Revelations · Aug 04, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robster Lobster

Dolyak Signet can't be used when you're already knocked down which clearly makes it useless for 90% of monks.

Quoted for truth.

It's amazing how many monks activate balanced after eating bull's or meteor.

Bobby2 · Aug 04, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Still means I can't qknock them. Sad panda QQ

icedwhitemocha · Aug 04, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

If you can't decide, bring both!

Ariena Najea · Aug 04, 2009, 05:38 AM // 05:38

The mere thought of using Dolyak over Balanced Stance can be likened to wearing the Iron Boots everywhere in LoZ Ocarina of Time. It is a terrible, terrible idea.

Not being able to use it while knocked down is a major downside, since you can save yourself the kd from Shock, Horns of the Ox, etc and kill their combo. +10 armor is more than some posters seem to think, but then again, the absence of critical hit damage is serious business, particularly while kiting. I would expect this damage reduction from crits to far outweight that reduced by Dolyak's armor buff. Even with the advent of MB Eles into RA, it's still easy enough to throw on your +10 versus Fire shield and laugh at the pitiful damage, and only having to worry about Immolate and Meteor. Being able to kite melee attackers without taking critical hit damage is not to be overlooked.

EDIT: I should mention that my remarks are directed towards the Arenas, Hero Battles, and low-end PvP (JQ, AB...) where stance removal is not as prevalent as it is perhaps in GvG. Other common stance removal is typically gotten by Shield Bash anyways.

*lemming* · Aug 04, 2009, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Dolyak Signet pisses me off a lot more than bstance does when I play against it.

That conclusively demonstrates that it's better.

urania · Aug 04, 2009, 10:33 AM // 10:33

at Ariena, almost every organized team in TA carries some means of stance removal now.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Aug 04, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Not being able to use it while knocked down is a major downside, since you can save yourself the kd from Shock, Horns of the Ox, etc and kill their combo.

I haven't tested this but since it doesn't have a cast time you should still be able to put it up before the 2nd KD.

deluxe · Aug 04, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I haven't tested this but since it doesn't have a cast time you should still be able to put it up before the 2nd KD.

Yep, no matter how perfect the Qknock, you still get your dolyak signet off.

Ariena Najea · Aug 04, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

at Ariena, almost every organized team in TA carries some means of stance removal now.

Perhaps I'm simply on at different times, but I haven't found this to be the case. I tend to play mostly during the day/early evening EST.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I haven't tested this but since it doesn't have a cast time you should still be able to put it up before the 2nd KD.

Good point, I don't know what I was thinking with that comment. Thank you for fixing my stupidity =)

deluxe · Aug 04, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Perhaps I'm simply on at different times, but I haven't found this to be the case. I tend to play mostly during the day/early evening EST.

Good point, I don't know what I was thinking with that comment. Thank you for fixing my stupidity =)

Axe warrs in Korean district RA are pretty much all Whirling or Primal.
And W/P (wild throw) hammer is pretty standardized in TA i think now.
Dolyak over balanced is basically just a "Buildwars" choice, not so much a better skill.

Sauron The Greatest · Aug 05, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Smoke powder defense does have the coolest name and greatest lawl factor of any stance though. I actually would like to see that skill buffed to usable status with a nerf to shield bash, which was conspicuously not addressed with the tactics stance nerfs.

Smoke Powder Defense is used and abused by every monk in Hero Battles, yes i know, hero battles lul, but just saying.

Xyon the Greatest · Aug 05, 2009, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by riceangel

Recently I've seen monks running dolyak instead. Is that a wise choice?
Pros of Dolyak:
no energy cost
unremovalable
+armor
same length as balanced if not speccing into tactics
shorter recharge
Cons:
cant be used while activating other skill
75% slow

Pros of Balanced Stance:
Monks are likely to spec into at least 7 giving it 14sec duration
immune to to critical
its a stance

Cons:
removable
longer recharge

any thoughts or input?

Well most monks DO spec into tactics usually 9, enough to get the armor boost from your tactics shield, so thats 15 seconds of balanced stance.

Balanced Stance vs Dolyak Signet Pros:

2x longer
Immune to crit strikes (destroy sins)
You dont have 75% damage reduction

Balanced Stance vs Dolyak Signet Cons:

Cost Energy
Doesnt give +10 armor (barely any difference)

Balanced Stance.

Worf · Aug 05, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

Well most monks DO spec into tactics usually 9, enough to get the armor boost from your tactics shield, so thats 15 seconds of balanced stance.

Most monks actually spec 8/7 into tactics and use a req 8/7 shield.
But anyways, I've been using DSignet for some time now (in RA lulz) and it seems to save my ass more often than BStance. Maybe that's because I'm a bad monk. Who knows. Yes, it's impossimble to kite while under it's effects, but you cant kite a PRage anyways and Whrling Axe destroys BStance. Both PRage & Whirling are quite popular in RA.

Jam Jar · Aug 05, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

One could argue you could run both

. Chain them together for what, 20ish seconds of anti-KD? That still leaves some downtime for Balanced, but hey, you're pretty much protected. Dolyak versus Balanced alone, I do see some merits for Dolyak from the above posts, and I may start playing around with the idea. Nobody has fully mentioned it yet, but you can combo Dolyak with shield bash or another stance.

As for the PR debate, I think PR is a bit of an overrated skill in terms of catching kiters. PR or not, catching up to enemy with rush/PR and bullstrike is the first and foremost tactic of any good warrior. Hitting rush on reflex when you immediately see a person kite should be done automatically. A good warrior will have great QStepping and decent prediction, making kiting a lot harder. If, for instance, Bull Strike is unavailable but damage is needed, PR still would not dish out max damage on kiters. Even if you have a 33% boost in IAS, you still hit slower on kiting enemies because of the stop->attack->stop->attack->etc. chain. Instead of catching up to your opponent to deal damage, note that no character would kite in a straight line, as this would overextend. To counter this, simply QStep/intercept at an angle so that you cut them off a certain point. As a warrior, chasing kiters is a waste of time. Setting up for Bull Strike or charging up adrenaline for a spike with spear is a lot more viable.

Don't get the wrong idea, let's not go off topic and have another PR debate, I'm a personal PR hater, but I find it ignorant that people automatically assume having PR would dominate kiters when in reality, hitting kiters slows your attack speed down.

Morgoth the dark · Aug 06, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

For 8 seconds, you have +10 armor, cannot be knocked down, and you cannot kite for shit.

Balanced stance.

Since you can kite PR easily, right?